Why the Catholic Church is Wrong

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Megaleiotha Eirhno
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Why the Catholic Church is Wrong

Post by Megaleiotha Eirhno » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:20 pm

A thread to anger Paulus.

1. Matthew 16:18 does not establish the papacy nor Peter as the first pope. Instead, Jesus establishes the church upon the Rock that is the declaration that Jesus is the Christ. This is easily proven in Matthew 18:18 where Jesus gives that power he supposedly only gave Peter in Matthew 16:18 to the whole church.
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Why the Catholic Church is Right

Post by Paulus Augustus » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:50 am

This thread has an opposite effect, I like debates ;)

Before I counter your point, if the Catholic Church is wrong, what Church is right? What Church was established by God two thousand years ago? For the Church is not anything more or less than an assembly of believers. It is written in Matthew 28:19-20, that Our Lord before ascending to Heaven gave a commission to the Apostles to teach all nations and promised to them that He will be with them always, even to the consummation of the world. Therefore if you find an assembly of believers that is one in faith (for their Teacher is one, Matthew 23:8), seeks to universally teach all nations, is holy (for a wicked assembly would have nothing in common with the righteous God), and can be traced back to the Apostles (since they first received this commission), then you will find the true Church. In other words, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

But do not think that I find the Catholic Church to be true solely by looking back at different arguments for and against it, for Christians do not lie when they say in the Creed "I believe in the Church", i.e. it is a matter of faith to recognize the Church. Faith is the grace of God, but although we cannot attain to it by our own strengths, God gives graces to everyone that seeks Him (Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you - James 4:8), for in truth, He has sought to give graces for a far greater time and far more earnestly than anybody has searched for Him.

Anyway, with that long prelude
Megaleiotha Eirhno wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:20 pm
1. Matthew 16:18 does not establish the papacy nor Peter as the first pope. Instead, Jesus establishes the church upon the Rock that is the declaration that Jesus is the Christ. This is easily proven in Matthew 18:18 where Jesus gives that power he supposedly only gave Peter in Matthew 16:18 to the whole church.
First, the Catholic Church does not teach that only to Peter was granted the power of the keys, and of binding and loosing. The "keys" are described as a sort of power of jurisdiction that the Church has and are especially mentioned in the sacrament of Penance. To "lose" means in that context to absolve from sin in the tribunal of penance, to "bind" means to impose a penance for sin. This power is not given to Peter or his successors alone and neither to every member of the Church, but to those that were ordained to the priesthood. (The Council of Trent, XIV Session)

This power, as you admit, is given to Peter first and then to the rest of the Apostles, just as in the Church the pope has jurisdiction and then the rest of the bishops. For in the Church all believers are indeed equals in some way, but in another they are not. For they are equals as the members of one Body. But one Body has diverse members. So it is said that the Church teaches, the Church has the power to absolve sin, etc., but not every member of the Church is a teacher or Apostle (1 Corinthians 12:28-30) and not every member has the power to absolve. And just like in our bodies our members are subject to each other, tracing all the way back to those members that are subject immediately to our soul, in the Catholic Church members are subjects of other members, tracing all the way back to the pope who is subject to no other member but immediately to God, Who is Love, the Heart and Soul of the Church.
[+] Love is the heart of the Church
St. Therese of Lisieux, Doctor of the Church wrote:I understood that the Church being a body composed of different members, the most essential, the most noble of all the organs would not be wanting to her; I understood that the Church has a heart and that this heart is burning with love; that it is love alone which makes the members work, that if love were to die away apostles would no longer preach the Gospel, martyrs would refuse to shed their blood. I understood that love comprises all vocations, that love is everything, that it embraces all times and all places because it is eternal!
Therefore, the power of the rest of the Apostles was subjected to Peter, so that the Church may be a well-ordered Body. And we can see the Catholic Church historically following this practice. To again mention Penance, all priests have the jurisdiction to absolve, but some grievous sins (for which a person would be excommunicated) were reserved to the bishops or to the Holy See to absolve. For the power of the ordinary priests is subject to that of the bishops and that of the bishops to the pope.

Lastly, the richness of the Bible makes one verse have diverse meanings, that are however not contradictory. Jesus said to Peter "upon this Rock, I will build my Church" first to commend his faith, upon which the Church is built. But He also meant Peter, for it is at this moment that He changed his name from Simon to the Rock, Cephas in Aramaic, and Peter in Greek. What would be the significance of "you are Peter", if he was not also the Rock? Why would John the Evangelist, writing in Greek, feel the need to translate "Cephas" (John 1:42), if the name was of no significance?

Those two meanings do not contradict each other, rather enrich one another. Being fastened by God (the original Rock) and His faith, Peter became himself a fastener of Christians.

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